security. what we do need to do, though, is control the growth of these mandatory programs. and ross properly says, okay, there's some pain in that. but governor clinton refuses to touch that, simply refuses. so what we've got to do is control it, let it grow for inflation, let it grow for the amount of new people added, population, and then hold the line. and i believe that is the way you get the deficit down, not by the tax-and-spend program that we hear every 4 years, whether it's mondale, dukakis, whoever else it is. i just don't believe we ought to do that. so hold the line on social security and put a cap on the growth of the mandatory program. >> new question, it is for governor clinton, 2 -minute answer. sandy will ask it. >> governor clinton, ann compton has brought up medicare. i remember in 1965, when wilbur mills of arkansas, the chairman of ways and means, was pushing it through the congress. the charge against it was it's socialized medicine.